Golf and lunches don’t close deals

Jason Cole: SW, SW, SW, SW. That stands for some will, some won't. So what? Someone's waiting. The good news is, AI can do your job for you. The bad news is, AI can do your job for you. But what cannot be replaced ultimately is that human element. You still have to show up to be seen.

John Ling: Most $5 to $20 million owners are their sales process. Jason Cole has sold for Schawk, LYFT Visual and Flipp. And today, he shows you how to get it out of your head. Welcome to Owners & Experts. Last episode, Victor sat down with John Rebello, who told us that when demand outruns your team, don't hire first, fix the process. Today, I want to apply that to the one process most owners never write down, and that is enterprise sales. Jason Cole ran business development for SGS, Schawk and Flipp, selling to top brands and retailers in North America. For the last 12 years, he's run his own creative production shop, 3 Apples High. Full disclosure, Jason and I worked together at LYFT Visual and then again at Flipp. This is our first in-person podcast where we recorded at Jason's studio. Tell me about how owner growing a $5 to $20 million business like when it comes to setting up their sales team, what's the first thing they should be thinking about?

Jason Cole: It's a really good question. I find personally, the most important intangible is relationship. Business is built on relationship, so ultimately you need to make building relationships your business. Seek that first, find folks that buy into a process that can support relationship building. I know your last conversation with Victor was in and around process, so we know that process is paramount, people is important, systems are important. If you can build out a team that understands the importance of those three factors, prioritizing relationship building, you're always going to do well. I do find though that too often when it comes to sales, teams of all sizes, whether we're talking about Fortune 500 or even Fortune 100 companies or the small to medium sized businesses, too often we tend to focus on kind of the wining and dining, the golf outings and the lunches that as great as they are, we all enjoy a really good lunch and I think we all enjoy getting out to the green and going over the back nine. It doesn't necessarily translate to sales and if it's not translating to dollars, then ultimately it doesn't make sense. Coming back around to your question, prioritize relationship, make sure you have really good processes in place and seek the folks that can buy into that process.

John Ling: I find that for the salespeople that work well, it's how much you care. We worked together for a long time. I know that you care so much about it, but how do you inspire that level of care within your sales team?

Jason Cole: That's a really good question. I think the way you go about doing that is take something that feels big, something that feels fast and break it up into smaller chunks. If the chunks are smaller, they're easier foreseeable to attain, they're more achievable, they're more accessible and more approachable and the sooner you can start to see results on something that is nearer to you, more achievable, more accessible, more approachable, the more confident that person is going to be on your sales team. You apply that level of confidence right across the board and it starts to create a little bit of a groundswell. Here's what I mean by that. Instead of going into a meeting and thinking, "Well, you know what? I said everything I wanted to say or I just felt really good about myself. I dressed well and I had a good day and I got all of my points out. Well, that's great." But did you ask the right questions? Did you learn anything that you didn't know going into that meeting? What does the next touch point look like? Is it in your court? Is it in the prospect's court? If it's in their court, how do you incentivize them to take action? I think you really want to have a strong plan going into that meeting and that strong plan can feel a whole lot better to all parties involved if you make it a smaller chunk to focus on. So the first chunk might simply be, let's get this prospect to the point where they are willing to sign off on an NDA. We've shared enough information that we have teased out the prospect of something that feels advantageous, prospect. Now they're saying, "Well, I'd like to learn more." Sure, you could divulge that information or you could respect the integrity of that asset, which is the information that you have that they don't yet have. You could simply say, "Hey, I'm so happy that we're on the same page. I love that we've hit it off. We've had a fantastic dialogue and I can see genuinely how this product, how this service can help you. This is great." Of course, you knew that going in because you had already done your research. Now we're at a point where I'd love to tell you more. I just need us to sign off on this NDA. The prospect should be able to respect that because if it's something worth knowing, then this is a small price to pay. Now, once you've done that, you've already gone to the next stage. Maybe stage one is securing that meeting. You secure the meeting. All right, that's great. Stage two, the minimum outcome that we want coming out of this meeting, this interaction, is to sign off on this contract. Simply an NDA. At least this shows you that they are demonstrating their interest and it takes something that feels conversational, feels a little bit superficial, feels maybe informal, and it formalizes it to some degree.

John Ling: Okay. Basically, take the first goal, achieve it, and get the client or the prospect to gain this habit of saying yes to you, I guess.

Jason Cole: Well, not blindly, but clearly you've demonstrated the value of this proposition, whatever that may be, whether it's a product, whether it's a service, you've demonstrated enough value. There's enough intrigue now on the part of the prospect for them to want to learn more. But they understand in order to learn more, it's kind of like the old adage goes, no ticket, no laundry. So the ticket to learn more to get that laundry, so to speak, is for them to take the next step and complete that NDA. That also gives you a little bit of insight. Who's going to complete that NDA? The person you're meeting with, do they have the authority to bind the organization? If they don't, that's already your first tip. You know that you may not be meeting with the right person. So this is a really good way to expose the relationship. Show your hand, let the prospect know that you're serious. Also, to gain an understanding of how important they value this proposition. As well, are they the ultimate person? Now, it could be that through this interaction, you find out the person you're meeting with is not the person who will be signing off on that NDA. That's okay. Now, that's giving you access to more folks within the organization. This has told you that maybe the person you're sitting down with is not going to be the ultimate decision maker. But that doesn't mean they don't have an important role in the entire sales cycle. Perhaps their role is to act as that of the coach. Maybe they hit it off with you so well. They appreciate you as a person. They see the value of the proposition that you're presenting. They want to be a part of this. But they understand that they themselves are not in the position with the authority to be able to bind the organization even better. Now, you've got an advocate on the inside, a partner, if you will, who can help coach you to navigate the ins and outs of this complex sales cycle.

John Ling: Can you tell me a little bit about how that changed for you from being the primary sales executive to owning the company and incentivizing the sales team?

Jason Cole: When I worked in sales in other organizations, I found that one of the biggest challenges was the schism or the gap, if you will, that existed between sales and operations. Sometimes what happens or even sales and marketing and operations. Sometimes what happens is the sales rep goes out and they've got all of the excitement they're brimming with [inaudible] and vinegar. Promise the world? Promise the world, absolutely. They'll do whatever it takes to be able to close that deal. While that passion and optimism is good, can be good, and it is certainly contagious, it can also be fleeting and it can also present what challenge. As a salesperson, one of the greatest things that you have going for you is your authenticity and your trust. Again, remember, this comes back to relationship building. If you communicate something, say that something will be as such. Then for whatever reason or series of reasons, it does not materialize in that way, especially when you are looking to build brand new relationships. You've already started on the wrong foot and that prospect is likely going to think twice before they believe anything else that you have to present. It's really important that you start off with authenticity and you maintain that authenticity all the way through. When I was working in sales for other organizations, I found that sometimes what would happen is if I didn't have a really good handle on what operations capabilities were, in spite of my best efforts, I could inadvertently miscommunicate. I could speak and say this is the way it would be done or this is the timeline that would be achievable. This is the team that would be involved. This is how they would execute. The more realities tended to depart or differentiate from what had been communicated, the more that seed of doubt starts to grow with your prospect and you can't have that. I always thought that when I was in a position to have more oversight or power over the enterprise, I would do more to bring the inside voices out, the operation side to the forefront, because they know exactly how things are going to happen. The more involved operations is in that lead conversation, the more you have an opportunity to have a consistent narrative all the way through. All the way through what we typically know as the supply chain, but I like to term the value chain. In the absence of that, if the salesperson's on the outside and they're having the conversation and then you bring this opportunity on the inside, if it doesn't materialize the way that we think it's going to, then you start to create a little bit of that schism. The other piece is the operations team could be of the mindset of, well, hey, I wasn't at the table. My name is not known. So if this doesn't happen the way that the sales rep is asking for it to happen, it's no skin off my back. I wasn't involved. It's not my name. It's not my reputation. It's not my relationship. So again, it's all about harnessing and cultivating the power of relationships. We bring the operation side forward and now they too have a vested interest in ensuring that what we say is what we deliver on. And so as I scaled and as I ascended within organizations and ultimately had my own organization that I was leading, I kept that at the front of my mind. I always wanted to have consistent voices that knew the operation at the forefront. I had the benefit when I started in sales, even at a young age, I had already been in operations for some time. So I understood what I was communicating and there was a lower chance of my inadvertently communicating something that would not necessarily be true. Not to say that it always happened the way that I said it would, but it was a little bit closer in line. So an understanding of the upside is very helpful and a desire to be very close to what is actually going to occur. The other thing to remember is we often think that the client-supplier relationship is an internal and external one, meaning that the prospect and we hope ultimately the client, there they are outside of the company and the supplier, well, this is all of us collectively on the other side of the fence, whether that be sales, marketing, ops, product, we're supplier and their client. That's one way to look at it, but it's not necessarily the most invested way to look at it. On the flip side, every time something changes hands, there is an opportunity for a client-supplier relationship. Meaning as the sales rep, if you bring an opportunity into the company, into the enterprise, you turn around now and you need to communicate about that opportunity to operations, to product, to your internal teams. In that instance, in a sense, you are now the supplier. You are supplying your internal team with information, they've just become your customer. And you need to make sure that you supply them with the right information so that they can do their job to the utmost of their capability. Conversely, when the internal team finishes up with the job and now they're delivering it back out, now they are the supplier, you are the customer. So you have an opportunity to flip roles, but the idea here is simple, that there is always a customer-supplier relationship because information has to exchange hands. And if we treat our internal relations the same way that we do our external relations with all of the respect and all of the rigor that it deserves, then there's a greater likelihood that you will adhere to the processes, the SOPs that you put in place internally, because each party understands the merit of adhering to those SOPs. And therefore, you're going to have a more consistent, common output that then in turn, you as the sales rep are proud to then go back out to the customer with and say, here is the final product.

John Ling: Even though we have been friends for so long, I've never asked you, because I know it happened before we met, how did you go from operations or production to sales? Tell me that.

Jason Cole: The shift from operations into sales, that was an interesting one. I was working for a company, I was working for a global pre-media company. Yes, it was, right? Yeah, sure. I was working for SGS. And I was in operations, right? I was an on-site production manager and doing, I think, pretty well in my role and everything was fine. When you're on on-site, you are kind of going back and forth between two worlds. On the one hand, you're representing your company to the client on their property, right? So you're right there and you're immersed in that environment. At the same time, to your company, because you're not in the plant, you're kind of like the client. So you're in both worlds and yet at the same time, you kind of feel like you're on an island by yourself, under yourself. Often, you're taking the information from the client, you go back into the plant, you sit down, you have an internal meeting, and you're relaying all of the critical points to be able to execute the project. On one of these occasions, I went into the plant, I was sitting down, I was briefing the team, and a couple of our BPs walked by. They liked the way I was briefing the team. The way I was raised, my family, I don't shy away from conversations. I feel like I can talk to anyone about anything. So even though this was senior leadership and in some circles, folks might say, "Oh, senior leadership, I better watch my words," or "I'm a little bit nervous." I wasn't. I relished the opportunity to be able to engage them and bring them right into the conversation. So I turned and I met them and I started speaking to them and briefing them as though they were part of this internal collective, and they appreciated that. After that interaction took place, they really enjoyed the way that I pulled them in and brought them up to speed on what was happening. They said to me, "Hey, you seem to have a little bit of what they call a gift for the gab, you don't have to talk. You seem quite comfortable, whereas most folks, when they first meet us, are not feeling the way you do." I said, "Yeah, sure. It's no problem. I enjoyed it in our interaction," and they asked me, "Have you ever considered sales?" I said, "No." I hadn't considered sales, and that was true because I was thinking, "Well, sales is so mercenary and it can feel sometimes a little bit messy or a little bit ... " We have preconception of what sales looks like. Yeah, right. I was thinking about the mercenary nature. You've got a hunt and you eat what you kill, but if you don't kill, then you don't eat. Not kill, kill, but right in terms of that hunting mentality. That was the analogy, and that was the perception that I was carrying. Also, I had this perception that the sales team can feel a little bit lacking in the authenticity department. Let's put it that way. Some negative preconceived notions. They wanted me to take this seriously and really consider my candidacy for sales within this organization. At an early age, they locked eyes on me and was like, "This guy's going to be in sales," and I pushed back on it. At the time, I was doing my master's. My master's was in process engineering, so I was doubling down in terms of standard operating procedure, process, quality management, all of the things that I really, really like. I like putting together puzzles. I love the efficiency. I love making things work. They said, "Hey, that's all great," and you really know the operation, but it's not just that you know the operation. You get people and make people feel good, and when people feel good, then they're more inclined to want to work with us. They kept on asking, and I kept on refusing it. It got to the point where they actually had me go on a series of internal interviews. I can't say well. Not against my will, but they said, "Look, we want to interview you. We know that you want to continue in operations. We know that you are in school to continue with operations." My undergrad was in tech. I went back to school. It's operations, and it's very much like a tech operations-minded individual. That's who you're dealing with here, but at the same time, I just have the ability to be able to communicate pretty well in different circles. They said, "Here's what we're going to do. You believe that you want to ascend within this organization, within the ops side. We believe that your future is in sales, so we are going to interview you for three different roles." One role was for a senior operations capacity. Another role was being on site with another team, so a more senior level on site with another team. Then the third was sales. I interviewed with different folks within the organization. I did fairly well in all three capacities, and then I was met with the choice. Leadership said, "You can choose to go in operations, further your career in operations. We know this is where you believe you want to be with everything you currently know, and this is what it's going to look like." From a dollars and cents perspective, from an autonomy perspective, an autonomy for me was very big. I still believe in it. I think it's very, very important. Just from a broad three-dimensional opportunity perspective. Operations, this is where you're going to be. Now, being on site on another team, this is where you're going to be. They were pretty much neck and neck. The senior operations role was a little bit higher, obviously, but this is still in the lane in which you're currently traveling. Then they said, "Now, if you are willing to make a left, you're going to be over here." It might not seem so sexy at first, but if you bet on yourself and you perform in the way that we expect that you can perform, very quickly you will exceed anything that you can do over here. There's still nothing preventing you from helping to lead these teams, except for now you will have more exposure. You will grow as a person, have greater opportunity and a more vast three-dimensional capacity. If you're thinking about autonomy, you're going to have more autonomy. If you're thinking about freedom, you will have more freedom. If you're thinking about funds, just economically speaking, there's certainly an opportunity to exceed there from an economic perspective. It's all a matter of betting on yourself. I think then they applied a little bit of reverse psychology. Then they said, "Now, obviously, this is the best opportunity, but if you don't believe you could do that, we understand." When someone says that to you, you're like, "No, no." Then you're like, "What do you mean?" "Well, I'm ambitious. I can do this." If you don't think you're capable, if you lack the drive and ambition and you're not willing to make a small sacrifice now so that you can gain more in the future, we certainly understand. You can continue on this path. This is fine. This is what we school for. This is a high level of comfort. It's predictable. No problem. When you go this route, we're going to close this door. If you do this right now and you continue in this lane, we're closing the door, the sales opportunity. However, if you try the sales opportunity, if for whatever reason it doesn't work out, you can come back over here. Again, this is all predicated on whether or not you believe in yourself. When you hear words like that, you're going to do it. I did it. I never looked back. I did have a few conversations with some close friends who were already in sales. I said, "What's this like? What could happen? What if it doesn't pan out?" Ultimately, it comes down to this. You will never work harder than you do for yourself. That's just it. At times, it means that you might be your own worst critic. But the opportunity is there. You've got the mindset. You can certainly do it. There's a certain intangible to it, I will say, in terms of being able to quickly relate to folks from a wide variety of faculties, functions, different walks of life as people say, so to speak. But the other piece that has served me well is a reliance on process. Because so many areas of our businesses come down to numbers, the numbers don't lie. If you do things a certain way, you have a process that is proven, then it becomes a matter of how many opportunities do you have to leverage that process? What will come out in the wash is a certain percentage of those opportunities will convert. Make sure that you have plenty of opportunities in the pipeline. Always be prospecting. Always be prospecting. First, always be prospecting so that you can always be closing. It begins with the prospecting. When we're talking about complex sales cycles, which is what you have when we're talking about B2B, business to business, it takes a lot. It's not always something that happens immediately. The more you have in your pipeline, some will be nearer, some will be further away, but you are constantly moving the needle. This is not a matter of perfection. It's progress, but you need to be able to demonstrate that progress, and that's where the process comes in.

John Ling: Not every sales leader will think the way you do. What if, as an owner, my sales leader is not thinking about prospecting as much? What do you do? How do you change that situation so that...

Jason Cole: Same thing you do in every situation. Ask questions. If you come at that person or that leadership team and say, "This is flawed. This is not working," you're essentially throwing a jab. They're going to throw a jab right back. It's not working, but why not? Prove that it's not working. You're already in this kind of offense defense kind of scenario, which at the end of the day doesn't result in any side really winning. That's not how we want to be. We don't want to be on opposite sides of the table. Better yet is asking the question. Allow that person or allow that leadership team to sit on the same side of the table with you, and let's collectively ask ourselves the questions. "Hey, where do we want to be as an organization?" "Well, we believe we'd like to be here." "Great. Where are we now?" "Well, we think we're down here." "Okay. So it appears it looks like there's a little bit of a gap. Can we agree?" "Yes, there is." "Okay. How are we going to bridge this gap? How can we do that?" And the more you ask questions, the more it can disarm people. We're on the same side. We're looking at things together. Yes. How can we bridge this gap? Let's think about this together collaboratively. At a certain point in that conversation, it will give rise or give the opportunity to insert process. Because if we believe what we're doing today, either A is not working, or B did a great job at bringing us to where we are right now, which is at the foot of the mountain. That's great, but what brought you to the foot of the mountain will not be the same thing that allows you to ascend the mountain. So at a certain point, we come to the prevailing understanding that something needs to shift. And then in order for that shift to occur, what's going to take place? Is it magic? Is it whimsy? Is it fluke? These things are not repeatable. They are not scalable. They are not predictable. There is so much uncertainty attached to this that you could argue it is dangerous. If you had to bet your house on a fluke, you probably wouldn't do that. I gather your sales leadership would probably feel the same way. Clearly, we need some sort of process in place. Let's attempt either a process that we've seen that works elsewhere. So we know it's proven. Let's apply it here. Maybe we need to tweak it, refine it for our industry, our organization, our stakeholders, our suspects, prospects, and clients. Or we build something ourselves, right? And from scratch, Greenfield, that's okay as well. But at some point, we need to put some sort of process in place. If for no other reason, then to understand what doesn't work about it. Because if we try the same thing 10 times, which essentially is a process, we're doing the same thing 10 times. We try it 10 times and it doesn't work 10 times. We know that that process doesn't work. And now we have concluded that experiment and we can pivot and invent a new process and try that. So nothing ventured, nothing gained. It is scientific, absolutely. It's a matter of math. But in the absence of that process, you try one thing today and another thing tomorrow and another thing the next day. You'll never learn. You'll never learn and you'll never know what if. What you tried first is actually destined to work. But you only tried it once. You didn't document it. You weren't process oriented. There was no standard operating procedure about it. Therefore, it was not repeated. So let's say the very first thing you tried would work nine out of 10 times. Guess what? You tried it once. You did not even give yourself the opportunity to see if it would work 90% of the time. Because you've already shifted. And you shifted not even intentionally. You shifted due to lack of process. So it only stands to reason, like you said, it's scientific. Employ your process, test the process, see what works, see what doesn't work, and pivot and adjust and adapt what needs to. Course correct. Just like flying a plane. Course correct, course correct, course correct, course correct. Until you land a plane where it needs to be.

John Ling: So maybe tell me a little bit of a manager or someone who has been great in coaching your sales career. What do they do? And maybe do a comparison of someone who hasn't done a great job. What do they do?

Jason Cole: What I've seen in my career is really what I've already mentioned. The folks that have done well have been the folks that really understood the power of relationship. That, if you will, is kind of the secret sauce or the magic. If you want to say, "Well, you can't just have a process. You need something else." Well, it's relationship. But even relationship is something that can be focused on. So you need to focus on things. The other piece is they have had process. They have had process. So when you're in sales and you have to report to a sales director, sales leader, some higher up within the organization, yes, you need to be able to share the news of what you've already done. But for the most part, what you've already done has already been recognized and the leadership team is already well aware of that. The part that's missing, the part that they don't know, that they can't see, is what are you working on now? What's coming up next? The organization requires that information in order to sustain itself, in order to continue to move on and continue to grow. So the sales team has this information. They need to share it. What does the pipeline look like? What does the forecast look like? And how can we ensure that if you have $50 million in the pipeline, that X percentage of this will actually materialize? What assurance do we have? And that's where the process comes into. So the leaders that I've had that understood that, they've done well within the organization because they have the info that they need to be able to communicate with others. At the same time, that process also relieves a little bit of the pressure from the sales rep who's trying to perform because now they understand, hey, we've got a process that works. We just need to apply it more often with more rigor. If we stick to this and we apply it more often, essentially, we're printing money. So let's double down on that. Let's focus on that. Everyone knows what to expect. You know what to expect. Your director knows what to expect. Senior leadership knows what to expect. Now, this is not to say that you're going to convert every single opportunity far from it. You will not. But because this is a tried, tested and true process, you'll understand, hey, if we follow this method, we'll probably convert name a number, 20%, 30%, whatever the case may be, but at least you know. And then from there, you can reverse the math and say, well, if for this next quarter, we need to hit this number and we know based on our process, we typically achieve 30% of conversion, not to say that we can't exceed that, but let's be realistic. 30% conversion is typically what we achieve. We need to hit this for the next quarter. It means that we're going to need to triple our prospecting activities. Are we poised to do that? It may mean that we need to bring in outside resources. Maybe we need to scale our team so that we can triple the prospecting activity. But again, how do you even begin to bring in outside resources to triple what you're doing right now without having it documented? So you won't even know what's your triple. You won't even know. That new person comes in and if they're relying on what they've done elsewhere, sure, they might have been successful by elsewhere, but this isn't elsewhere. Not saying elsewhere. This is what's going on here and the reality is different. It is unique. It is bespoke. But the good news is you've got a process. You can scale that. Now, conversely, what I've seen is funny enough, I've seen also a focus on relationship not work out so well when it is only relationship void of the process. In that case, it almost comes across more of pressuring the prospect into conversion, maybe for a deal that really ultimately doesn't even make sense for them. And maybe the pressure comes through, "Hey, we've got such a great relationship." I'll even say, "We're friends." So based on the fact that we're friends, you should do this. Or maybe it's a thinly veiled attempt at a friendship where I'm showing up and I'm taking you to lunch and we're going out for golf and I remember your kid's birthdays and all this kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, how does that benefit the prospect from a business perspective? If it doesn't, you're pressuring them into that. And you only have so much bandwidth to remember birthdays and to show up for all of these occasions. That's not scalable. And again, you have a process. You're testing it. It's a scientific method. So we try it. And if it's not yielding the conversion rate that we're looking for, at least we know we have consistently applied ourselves in this way. And consistently, we are seeing a lack of the desired result. No problem. Just like taking a test in school. Now we know what not to do. At least we've ruled that out. And we have all of the evidence to support that. Hopefully, we've done it in such a manner that we haven't completely lost or closed those doors. And even if the suspect that you've identified turned prospect because you've engaged with them, even if they say no, hopefully it's due to that process and there's an opportunity to take that no into not right now. That's all it is. Another way to look at it is you apply a process and a wide enough capacity. And really what you've got is SW, SW, SW, SW. That stands for some will, some won't. So what? Someone's waiting. This is a numbers game. We can't afford to be so fussed and so caught up in this one pipe dream that we lose sight of the 99 others that are waiting for exactly what you've got. So take your process, apply it to all 100, see what sticks, let's move forward, take your best shot. Let's go from 20% booking the meeting, 40% exchanging some sort of contract, 60% completing some sort of test. Move it along, have whatever those metrics make sense. Usually it takes about five to get all the way to close, but understand what those five steps are. The fifth one being the actual close and then that becomes your marker. So if this opportunity is worth $5 million and you get to the 20% range based on what you've identified as qualifying for 20% within your sales process, then you know that $5 million, you're at 20%. That means you've got a million dollars in the pipeline. If you've got 10 at that 20% range, you've got $10 million in the pipeline. At least it's something that is easily understood and you can transfer that, transmit or communicate that to others within the organization. Everyone can see, okay, well, I can see this pipeline. We've got 50 opportunities in the pipeline. We've got of the 50, 15 are at 20%, 15 are at 40%, another 15 are at 60%. We've got five that are 80%. And as you traverse that pipeline, you get closer to that fifth step. You go from 20 to 40 to 60 to 80 and it gives a realistic metric of what the pipeline looks like. What the pipeline actually looks like at any given time.

John Ling: Awesome. Awesome. Okay. I think that we need to go a little bit tactical now. The question that I have right now is for almost every function in an organization now, AI has changed your world a little bit. How has that changed in sales?

Jason Cole: Well, it's certainly, at the end of the day, AI is a tool, right? So what you choose to do with that tool is up to you. Okay. The good news is AI can do your job for you. The bad news is AI can do your job for you. So you can be replaced, right? So be careful. But what cannot be replaced ultimately is that human element. You still have to show up to be seen. And especially when we're talking about complex sales cycles, right? You need to physically be present at some point. Usually, usually, right? So that's not going anywhere, but leveraging AI as a tool can help you. We just finished saying this is a numbers game. Maybe the AI helps pre-qualify the opportunities that you even start off with. And in that case, it can take your 20% conversion rate, maybe up to a 30% conversion rate, because now you're filling your pipeline with more opportune chances, right? Or more fulfilling opportunities, I can tell you. So there's that aspect of it. There's time management. You only have so much time in a day. You're going to send out a number of communication, whether it's emails, some phone calls. The AI can help you with the emails, right? Make sure you train the AI so that it's steeped in authenticity. You want to make sure that it doesn't come across cold. It doesn't come across disingenuine. It doesn't feel like it's not your voice. It should be your voice. Train it to be your voice, right? So it can represent you. Even in terms of the responses, maybe there's something quick that you can offer back. So at least that suspect turns prospect feels like they're being engaged with. But for me, it's a matter of providing more info at the start of an opportunity. What I mean by that is, I was trained not to go into any potential sales engagement cold. We need research. We need research. So I know we're all familiar with the term. Oh, cold call and that sort of cold email. Yes, but it's very easy to take the cold and turn it into warm. And how you do that is have at least three points that you can discuss at any given moment and make sure that those points are rooted in customer centricity. What matters to this customer and the information is already out there. You have the ability to acquire that information and the AI can help you to do so at a greater clip. So what do I mean by that? You can consult annual reports, Form 10-Ks, recent news articles. The information is out there. What is making this organization tick? What are their biggest challenges? What are their opportunities? What does success actually mean to the person that you were trying to engage? If you're reaching out to the VP of procurement, when the VP of procurement hits their numbers, what kind of bonus might they get? What are they personally on the hook to deliver for this next fiscal? And how are they going to get there? You shouldn't know all of that. You should know all of that. And at least the AI can help to pull that in. You can leverage AI to set up very interesting action scripts where nightly you are scrubbing the internet, pulling together some sort of digest. It comes into your inbox. These 10 prospects that we're working on because they've made it to, let's say 40% of the way through the funnel. Now you really want to keenly focus your attention there. This is what is going to get them to the 60% range. This is what they actually care about. You have three points for each. So now when you send an email out that says, "Hey, I know this is what you're looking into. I appreciate what you've done so far. This looks like a wonderful opportunity or a really important decision for your organization." Here are a few things that could help you out along the way. You send an email out like that first thing in the morning when we're all kind of wired in a similar way where we get up. We're looking for the news for that day. News for that day might be on our phone. So we flip through the phone as we're getting ready. Oh, what's going on? Okay, well, this meeting's coming up and this just happened and the guy with the orange face down south is saying this now. All of these different factors are going to impact my day in some way while we're playing all that information. At the top of the email stack happens to be the email that comes in from John. "Hey, know you're up against this. Know you're looking to try and achieve this." Here are a few helpful things that might be able to get you there. Just wanted to give you the heads up. I'll give you a call later today to further discuss. So what have you just done? You've just set the stage for your phone call, right? Remember, this is all about relationship and about trust. So you've said you're going to do something, now all you've got to do is do it. Now when you pick up the phone and you call, they may not answer. But even if they don't, they got an email from you, they got a phone call from you within a 24-hour time span. They can't say that you didn't deliver on what you said you were going to. So you're already starting to establish and to build that trust. Now if they do answer the phone, that's your opportunity to discuss something that you know is actually relevant to the prospect. You know that it's relevant to the prospect because maybe the AI helped to pull this information in for you. So it's a tool at the end of the day. You still got to lean into what you do best. This is an opportunity for the human to be the most human that you can be, and the AI can take care of all of the other stuff. The stuff that is either repetitive and non-value added or repetitive and value added, but it is still repetitive nonetheless. Or the stuff that is not repetitive but still non-value added. Hopefully you can find a way to structure that through AI again. Now it's no longer just API but it is intelligent to some degree, and it takes care of three fourths of the equation. And now that gives you an opportunity to focus on the last quadrant, right? Where it's not repetitive, it is value added, right? This is where you want to be. This is where you want to spend your time.

John Ling: We always want to leave the owners with one actionable insight that they can act on on Monday. For the owner, five to 20 million stage within Canada, how do they establish a good sales process?

Jason Cole: The advice that I would give would be have a sense of what you believe success looks like. Greenfield, what does success look like? Hopefully that's something that you can envision on your own. If not, speak with cross-functional leaders of your organization to have an understanding of where do we want to be, okay? And it's fair to have that. You can even have two goals. One is more realistic, and then the second one can be the stretch goal. The idea is what does success look like? Let's try to describe that as viscerally as we can. Then the next question is where are we right now? The sooner we can identify the fact that there is a gap, the sooner we can start the process of bridging that gap. So I would say just be bold enough to ask your question, what does success look like? Ask to as many people as it makes sense to ask. Don't ask people who have nothing to do with your organization. These are folks that are inherently within the organization and have a vested interest in seeing it be successful. Understand what that looks like. Understand where we are right now. Identify the fact that there is a gap. Once you identify the fact that there is a gap, just at a very high level, break down five steps that you believe could take us from where we are right now to where we need to be. Once you've identified five steps, again at a very high level, doesn't need to be correct. This is an assumption, but at least this is a place to start. Jot down those five steps, and now you've got the platform or the foundation for your first process. Vet the process. Try it out. Try it out about 10 times and see what you learn. Then you are already down the road of starting to course correct, but don't abandon it until you've at least tried it 10 times. Should be in a process. And throughout that process, do not abandon what makes us human, what makes us relatable. What makes the relationship actually stick. Stick with the process, vet the process, try the process, but make sure that what makes you you, what makes your sales reps independent, unique, relatable, still has an opportunity to come through that equation.

John Ling: Three things you take from Jason this week. One, write down what success looks like and where you are today. The gap is your sales plan. Two, break the path into five steps and run them 10 times before you charge them. Three, make your first win small and concrete, like the signed NDA, and notice who signs it. That tells you who actually decides. You can find Jason at 3 Apples High, the links below. If this was helpful, send it to one owner who's still running sales out of their own head. See you next week.